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Christian
22-06-2006, 10:52 AM
Hi all
I need help replying to all these lies to expose Islam to the west

We dont hate Christians, there is not a single verse in the Quran that says Muslims should hate Christians.
Not a single verse advocating unbridled hatred as you erroneously assume.

Instead, it says that we should take them as our friends if they have given us no reason to hate them (such as trying to star wars with us).

I have quoted the verses from the Quran on this extensively, and not you, or any Christian/Non-Muslim can deny it.



Now, since you enjoy quoting certain hadith so much, let me draw your attention to a few.
Furthermore, lets take your specific situation into account (you are a non-Muslim living in a Muslim nation).

Let's see what hadith says about your condition specifically, shall we.


How Muslims are supposed to treat Non-Muslims


The teachings of the Prophet Muhammad on how we should treat our Non-Muslim friends and neighbours on a day to day basis as well as how the government should treat a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state.



Quote:
"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet." (Bukhari, Muslim)


"Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God." (Bukhari)


"He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement." (Bukhari)


"Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall myself be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." (Al-Mawardi)


"Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise." (Bukhari)



Even our Prophet Muhammad would sooner align himself with a non-Muslim who has been wronged by a Muslim, then to be a biased hypocrite and side with his own ummah (people).


So, there you have it.
Not only can you NOT (and I guarantee you can not) find me a single verse from the Quran that goes against what I just posted, you also can not argue about your specific situation as it pertains to the hadiths which I have just posted.

Period.



I need the reply in English of course(sml7)

knowjesus_knowlove
22-06-2006, 05:33 PM
all Satanic verses are here

http://www.geocities.com/a_true_picture_of_islam/


To Fight and Slay the Non-Muslims

The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians). (alfatiha 1:7)

Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers, (altawba 9: 14)

And yet another translation

Fight against them so that Allh will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people, (9:14)

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans * wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); (altawba 9:19)

And yet another translation

Then when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the Mushrikn wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salt (Iqmat-as-Salt), and give Zakt, then leave their way free. Verily, Allh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (see V.2:105) (altawba 9:19)

(V.2:105) Neither those who disbelieve among the people of the ******ure (Jews and Christians) nor Al-Mushrikn (the disbelievers in the Oneness of Allh, idolaters, polytheists, pagans, Christians how worship Jesus as God, etc.) like that there should be sent down unto you any good from your Lord. But Allh chooses for His Mercy whom He wills. And Allh is the Owner of Great Bounty. (albaqara 2:105)

And in the following verses you will see that Muhamad identified Christians as Disbelievers and Mushrikn because he did not understand the Christian faith neither the Trinity - the Godhead in the Bible - nor the personality of Jesus Christ as the Eternal Son of God. Therefore, Muhamad considered Christians as Mushrikn.

According to him, disbelievers are those who say:

"Allh is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no ilh (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilh (God -Allh). And if they cease not from what tthey say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them. (almaida 5:73)

They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah (God) is the Messiah (Jesus Christ ) , son of Mary (almaida 5:17)

Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islm) among the people of the ******ure (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (altawba 9: 29)

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;(almaida 5:33)

Fighting is prescribed upon you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. (albaqara 2:216)

O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding. (alanfal 8:65)

Based on the previous verses, we conclude that Islam considers Christians as Pagans, Disbelievers and Mushrikn, because they:

1- Believe not in Allh of the KURAN, nor forbid what has been forbidden by Allh of the KURAN and his Messenger.

2 - Do not accept Muhamad as Prophet and Messenger from the True Allh (LORD God )

3 - Acknowledge not the religion of Islam as it is From God.

4 - Worship Jesus Christ as the Eternal Word of God.

5 - Believe that the true Allh is the One True God In His Trinity as revealed in the Holy Bible.

Thus, Islam teaches that Christians and others should be Killed in the name of Allh.

Islam pushes Christians to believe that Jesus Christ is not more than a prophet otherwise they will be KILLED by muslims.

Christian
22-06-2006, 06:11 PM
Thank you very much for your help , but I need to know if the Ahadith posted here are Daif or Sahih , and if they were Abrogated "Nosekhat" or not .
Did Muhammed said it when he was weak in Mecca or when he was strong in Madina

Bent_el_Neel
18-07-2006, 03:37 AM
Hi Christian
This is going to be my first comment in the forum, and I know you posted the question a long time ago.
The problem with discussing these things with Muslims is that if you quote a Quranic verse, they can say it was abrogated (mansoukh)
If you quote a hadith, they say it is weak (daif)

Thing is, at the end it only proves that Islam is not the "straight forward, simple path to God" as they claim!!

There are verses to order them to be peaceful...then other s that say fight
The people of the book are good...they're bad
And so on.

Sorry, this is probably not helping but unfortunately its the reality of the situation.

amoni
18-07-2006, 11:04 PM
no bent el nile
this is helping so much
you know i met many many of them, in all my life, i have been close friends to them and everytime we bring up the though of religion they escape and i got tired of talking and talking
but u know christian some of them when u tell them many of their verses they stop for a minute and think it over
but many of them are programmed to say something
and from me staying in paltalk for long hours
i see the questions they are asking are the same every time, they are programmed believe me
so we fight with them with our pen sometimes
but if you face a muslim in ur life the best way to treat his programming abilities is to act as the bible said
and try to mention good verses from time to time
like the verse
i can do anything in christ who strenghten me
they find that strange, they say do anything anything? i say no do everything good and useful because christ is the god of peace and love and compassion and nailed for our salvation and us being happy
and uncle Know jesus know love
it is truely if you know jesus u will know love and peace
peace and grace be with you all
we want to see more posts from u bent el nile

El-Basha
18-07-2006, 11:15 PM
[QUOTE=knowjesus_knowlove][LEFT][SIZE="4"]all Satanic verses are here

http://www.geocities.com/a_true_picture_of_islam/


To Fight and Slay the Non-Muslims

Thank you KK for this informations and the site,
God bless your workhapbirth:) hapbirth:) hapbirth:)

Christian
20-07-2006, 08:07 AM
Hi Christian
This is going to be my first comment in the forum, and I know you posted the question a long time ago.
The problem with discussing these things with Muslims is that if you quote a Quranic verse, they can say it was abrogated (mansoukh)
If you quote a hadith, they say it is weak (daif)

Thing is, at the end it only proves that Islam is not the "straight forward, simple path to God" as they claim!!

There are verses to order them to be peaceful...then other s that say fight
The people of the book are good...they're bad
And so on.

Sorry, this is probably not helping but unfortunately its the reality of the situation.

First , thank you all for your help
bent el neel : the problem is that , this guy denies abrogation altogether and deny any thing in Islam that shows hatred towards non muslims , just because we are in a western forum and a lot of people "American ones" are member and also he lives in America and fears persecution , so he practices "Tekkiya" a far as he can go fire

Bent_el_Neel
21-07-2006, 04:39 AM
First , thank you all for your help
bent el neel : the problem is that , this guy denies abrogation altogether and deny any thing in Islam that shows hatred towards non muslims , just because we are in a western forum and a lot of people "American ones" are member and also he lives in America and fears persecution , so he practices "Tekkiya" a far as he can go fire

WHAT jk-i
Denying Abrogation???
Is he serious!

Listen I might have some references from within the quran itself admitting the concept of abrogation. I'll dig'em out and post them later today or tomorrow.

I can't believe it!!! Denying abrogation!!!
La 7awla wala qowata ella billah!!!!(sml14)

Christian
27-07-2006, 10:23 AM
I told you , he is practicing Tekkya as far as he can go , he made me crazy

Bent_el_Neel
28-07-2006, 04:21 AM
Christian
I am so sorry to take so long in replying...been very busy

Now, here are those sources that talk of Abrogation (naskh). Yes they may be from sources that are "unfriendly" to Islam but you can't ignore the references from right withing the quran and hadith!!!

http://www.islamreview.com/articles/quransdoctrine.shtml
http://knowislam.info/drupal/abrogation
http://www.library.flawlesslogic.com/verses.htm

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/abrogatedverses.html

http://www.annaqed.com/english/is/the_abrogator_and_abrogated_quranic_verses.html

Also, have you heard Abouna Zakaria's episode on Abrogation (you can download them all from islamiat.com)

Good luck
Let us know how you go 10():